00:00:01.05
Sean
You said yeah. Let's record.

00:00:02.32
Andrew
I did say yes. I did say yes.

00:00:03.64
Sean
Okay.

00:00:03.62
Andrew
We're recording. Hi.

00:00:04.98
Sean
Hi, how's it going?

00:00:06.33
Andrew
It's good man.

00:00:06.41
Sean
One time.

00:00:07.22
Andrew
Miss to you.

00:00:08.08
Sean
Yes, you do. Happy Labor Day.

00:00:10.23
Andrew
I like how Jonah Simas. an analytics screenshot like, hey, you guys are killing it on YouTube. And ah Sean's response was. Cool. Let's not record for like three weeks.

00:00:22.86
Sean
I just hate things being too easy Yeah. i I hate success, it's the worst

00:00:28.59
Andrew
Also, you broke my heart a little bit when you told me part of the reason we you know had a good month on youtube was because youtube changed their the way they count views.

00:00:37.39
Sean
oh

00:00:37.35
Andrew
Um,

00:00:38.51
Sean
But that's where every work.

00:00:38.59
Andrew
Also, the...

00:00:39.58
Sean
uh-huh

00:00:40.32
Andrew
The new way they count views is bullshit. Like... If someone watches a video for a half a second, That is not a view in my mind. I do not i do not give a shit about that view.

00:00:50.28
Sean
Unfortunately that is how everyone else counts views. Facebook counts views if the dom loads with the video in it, not even if you've watched it.

00:00:53.52
Andrew
So they're just.

00:00:58.14
Andrew
Damn, how? That's insane.

00:01:01.65
Sean
Yeah. so i think i think for youtube it's like to keep up with the

00:01:02.60
Andrew
That makes no sense.

00:01:05.64
Sean
you know. The kids.

00:01:07.68
Andrew
Yeah.

00:01:08.42
Sean
Yeah.

00:01:09.43
Andrew
um do they still Do they have some sort of secondary metric? Cold like. real views, actual views or something.

00:01:13.67
Sean
Actual views.

00:01:18.46
Sean
no i would defeat the purpose for the advertisers you know

00:01:22.13
Andrew
It's a bummer.

00:01:22.89
Sean
Yeah.

00:01:23.56
Andrew
um Yeah. So generally sent us a um Yes, and it's a assist screenshot saying we got like 15 ,000 views on YouTube last month, which Um, blew my mind.

00:01:37.49
Andrew
uh no that's for the entire catalog of videos that

00:01:37.74
Sean
helloo

00:01:41.12
Andrew
we have ever posted, most of which are shorts. um And so. We will. Yeah. It's not like we're getting... 15 000 views an episode that would be Insane.

00:01:54.88
Andrew
um But we were getting, like... 200 views an episode, which is cool.

00:01:58.74
Sean
Yeah, and we have like 200 subscribers

00:02:00.89
Andrew
Yeah.

00:02:00.76
Sean
which is pretty cool. Yeah.

00:02:01.100
Andrew
Yeah.

00:02:03.08
Sean
Yeah.

00:02:03.55
Andrew
Um, Given...

00:02:04.38
Sean
thank

00:02:05.26
Andrew
where we started. Um... Give me where we started. Remy just texted me. He's going to get here after 11.

00:02:13.70
Sean
ah

00:02:13.81
Andrew
So. Uh,

00:02:14.70
Sean
Okay.

00:02:15.48
Andrew
Yeah, he said he'd jump on another one if we want to have him on.

00:02:18.65
Sean
all good Next time.

00:02:20.36
Andrew
Cool. yeah yeah yeah next time

00:02:23.04
Sean
Um, speaking Speaking of views. Have you? Have you been watching any AI videos lately.

00:02:31.70
Andrew
Like... AI generated videos?

00:02:33.83
Sean
yeah Yeah, yeah. Dude, people.

00:02:34.94
Andrew
No, why on earth would I do that?

00:02:35.75
Sean
Thank you. because they're good they're like i'll send you some later like they're funny they're they're They're funny. it's like ah you know There's people who are like... creating these like ai generated video studios and it's like you know they're high polished and it's like Yeah. In a way, it's the slop, sure. But it's not like it's not like the like fake news or like you know whatever sort of slop.

00:02:59.01
Sean
or like brain rot videos it's like they're like funny they're like you know somebody's imagined a sitcom with them and their cat End. if they're all just like little short snippets of like funny moments, you know

00:03:11.64
Andrew
Hmm.

00:03:12.27
Sean
Yeah.

00:03:12.97
Andrew
I mean, I'm not a... Obviously, as AI-filled as you and I are, Like.

00:03:17.18
Sean
i

00:03:18.04
Andrew
and'm not I don't have as hard line a stance on AI. creation as you know a lot of creators do i think it's a tool like anything else and if you combine that tool with human creativity sure

00:03:29.91
Sean
Yeah.

00:03:29.79
Andrew
you can make cool stuff.

00:03:31.38
Sean
Yeah.

00:03:31.23
Andrew
um I mean, I use AI to create stuff all the freaking time.

00:03:34.76
Sean
Yeah.

00:03:35.00
Andrew
Um,

00:03:35.60
Sean
I know we have a comment.

00:03:35.90
Andrew
We actually...

00:03:37.16
Sean
We have a comment on one of our shorts.

00:03:37.44
Andrew
Huh? huh

00:03:39.14
Sean
with with us talking about vibe coding and they're like oh these guys were not Or not, like... developers before this before the live cutting it was like

00:03:48.46
Andrew
Oh, hilarious.

00:03:48.99
Sean
You're not wrong. like

00:03:50.87
Andrew
Whoa, whoa, whoa. One of us has a computer science degree, Sean.

00:03:53.91
Sean
That's true.

00:03:54.93
Andrew
One of us started his career as a programmer for Like.

00:03:54.92
Sean
That's true. All right. Yes.

00:03:59.37
Andrew
three months until until I... came over the dark side of sales and marketing.

00:04:05.37
Sean
Oh. Alright. Whoever commented, you're half right. Okay.

00:04:09.62
Andrew
Also, you were like... You started your career in a technical role as well. You weren't technically a programmer, but you were a security engineer, right?

00:04:16.77
Sean
Yeah. i yeah Yeah. All right. now Neither of us were employed software engineers. i I'll give him that.

00:04:22.69
Andrew
Wrong. I was employed as a software engineer for like two years.

00:04:26.50
Sean
Never mind. One of us was not an employee.

00:04:29.10
Andrew
While I was still in college, it was not I was never employed as a software engineer.

00:04:31.23
Sean
Thank you.

00:04:33.51
Andrew
full time. Like... outside of school.

00:04:36.100
Sean
Oh I didn't know that. I didn't. i didn't I didn't know you were. Um, Well anyway. Yep. He's half right. He's half right. I run a design agency, guys. like

00:04:50.73
Andrew
Yeah, I mean I also like And definitely. more technical with AI than I was without it for you know, I stopped coding for years and started coding again.

00:05:02.40
Andrew
once AI became a thing. And I was like, Yo. like chart juice i wrote most of the code Um...

00:05:08.79
Sean
That's true. You were doing some. Yeah.

00:05:11.58
Andrew
But.

00:05:11.90
Sean
Yeah.

00:05:12.79
Andrew
Um,

00:05:12.85
Sean
Anyway. Don't worry about the haters, Andrew.

00:05:14.72
Andrew
Yeah.

00:05:14.67
Sean
All right. Yeah.

00:05:16.67
Andrew
I do not.

00:05:17.63
Sean
my vibe coder agentic engineer what's the difference you know

00:05:17.44
Andrew
i could

00:05:22.26
Sean
What's that?

00:05:22.64
Andrew
Dude, they're really, I mean. most good professional engineers I know are not looking at code anymore.

00:05:29.33
Sean
Yeah.

00:05:29.25
Andrew
we are We are well past that point.

00:05:31.75
Sean
I had a friend telling telling me about his his friend's software engineer interview at like a very legit place. And you know how, like... It used to be like these Lee code interviews for like the technical part.

00:05:42.75
Andrew
uh-huh

00:05:43.93
Sean
This was instead of you live coding, the interviewer was live coding while you talk to the interviewer. about. Um, about like what to build.

00:05:55.43
Sean
which is so interesting.

00:05:57.10
Andrew
Huh.

00:05:57.90
Sean
Yeah.

00:05:59.58
Andrew
That's cool. It's kind of like

00:06:00.68
Sean
you

00:06:01.61
Andrew
Um, we We were experimenting with a while for a while, we never got really good at it, but when we were running CRIT and hiring engineers more regularly. We were experimenting with a sort of reverse interview.

00:06:13.66
Andrew
where you write code. with intentional flaws. and then you ask people to analyze the code like like they're doing a pr review or something ah

00:06:23.64
Sean
Interesting.

00:06:24.40
Andrew
Yeah. Um, For a second i I got in my head. I was like Does PR stand for? review did i just say review review but then i was like nope pull requests we're good okay cool Goodbye.

00:06:35.07
Andrew
like ATM machine. or something, yeah. Um, Yeah. We... We never quite...

00:06:44.79
Andrew
figured out like We never quite nailed the process. like I felt like there was a lot of potential in the in the concept. Um... but It was like kind of too easy for.

00:06:58.04
Andrew
people to just sort of talk their way through the interview or like because Because it's it's very hard to... define exactly how many bugs or problems are in a product.

00:07:09.88
Sean
Mm-hmm. Mm hmm.

00:07:11.28
Andrew
In code now, I mean we were we weren't just looking for like they spotted Five out of five bugs. We were looking more for like, okay you know, a Junior engineer might spot a syntax error. A more senior engineer will spot like...

00:07:26.07
Andrew
We'll talk more about like architectural decisions that have been made. And so that's what we were looking for. Um, But it was still... hard to get the rubric.

00:07:37.37
Andrew
really solid. um

00:07:40.34
Sean
Um... Well...

00:07:42.53
Andrew
So we eventually asked people to write code. again.

00:07:44.86
Sean
Yeah. Yeah. Um, we have some cool Take home interviews now. Not for engineers. um Engineers are still out. don't know how to do it better than just You. write code and show us. um There's some fun like design interviews and. Shred. Strategist interviews now. But...

00:08:03.49
Andrew
That's cool.

00:08:04.03
Sean
Yeah. Um,

00:08:04.81
Andrew
Anything you want to share, like anything that's working well? that you added to the interview that

00:08:09.32
Sean
ah I can't tell you if they're working well or not because we haven't tried them. i thought of them in retrospect um for designers they

00:08:13.10
Andrew
Oh, okay Nice.

00:08:18.49
Sean
uh, For designers, the take-home exercise is... Pick your favorite board game and redesign the game manual. For it not your favorite pick any board game um and redesign the manual.

00:08:32.15
Andrew
That's fun.

00:08:33.10
Sean
Mm hmm. The thinking is like, you... um, It's a couple things, right? um Let's say it's Monopoly. for like No one reads the game manual. Everyone does, but... like It's dry.

00:08:44.100
Sean
It's always like most or most of the time it's like really poorly designed it's

00:08:45.62
Andrew
Yeah.

00:08:49.79
Sean
um It's very hard to keep all that context in your head, etc. um but uh, you know i think they're I think it... lets us know, like, how good they are at, like, communicating. but Like, like you you'll probably know the rules to Monopoly or chess or whatever it is.

00:09:07.88
Sean
Um... So how well with both? words and visuals and like layout can you design and like teach something. and like communicate that concept.

00:09:18.88
Sean
at the same time. Oh, so like, can you design something that's on brand too? the game that you are actually. designing for and then also can you design something. 4.

00:09:30.05
Sean
the medium which is you know it's going to be a printed sort of thing so can you think about like pages etc and gives us some pretty good insight into like who like what their strengths are, et cetera. And then for strategists. It's to write a brief.

00:09:44.95
Sean
with. as much or little information as you want. Um, uh it's Or between two of them. It's either to pick an airline or to... Or we might make like a miscreants airline that you have to have to do it for but basically like create the airline airplane safety video Like write a brief.

00:10:03.86
Sean
for a new airplane safety video with all the sort of you know, things that an airplane safety video has to have. But. you have to make it like memorable.

00:10:14.71
Sean
End.

00:10:15.59
Andrew
Hmm.

00:10:15.74
Sean
and And like something that. optimized for someone actually watching the thing and not just like Trying to fall asleep wildly. ah the video is playing.

00:10:26.56
Andrew
That's interesting.

00:10:27.83
Sean
Hmm.

00:10:27.78
Andrew
So there you're really looking for people. within so your your strategists. To me, that that feels... a little less like strategy what in my head I associate with strategy and more what I associate with like creative direction which is a form of strategy, but it's like.

00:10:47.18
Andrew
Can you come up with? kind of novel ideas do you understand how to how to hook people, how to... you know create things that are differentiated and interesting.

00:10:54.59
Sean
You know.

00:10:57.57
Sean
Right.

00:10:57.59
Andrew
um versus like Can you figure out? like how to nail the target audience for a software product or something can you figure out how to like hone in on the target audience and end.

00:11:11.29
Andrew
you know positioning kind of stuff.

00:11:13.57
Sean
Yeah, yeah.

00:11:13.61
Andrew
Which I guess, of course, my mind goes more product marketing because that's... That's the kind of strategy work I do on a regular basis.

00:11:19.63
Sean
yeah ah for what it's worth i think the product marketing side like we can teach and we have frameworks for but like like i think what our test what i'm sure of testing for is like innate understanding of the person receiving the information on the other side um the idea is that it's It's memorable and engaging, right? so Um...

00:11:41.38
Sean
it's memorable engaging so you have to like Like it is creative direction, but it's not. It's like... more conceptual than it is like I guess it's not our direction. um it is creative direction so Um,

00:11:55.43
Sean
yeah anyway i'll see i'll see how it goes you know i haven't tried either of these yet so

00:12:00.42
Andrew
Sounds interesting. Yeah. Hiring is so frigging hard, man. Um, you know, we Liked to think we were good at it, but we definitely had some misses over the years. like um It never... like it was never the fault of the person. It was never like.

00:12:16.30
Andrew
we hired a person and they were you know

00:12:19.38
Sean
no

00:12:19.68
Andrew
a bad person or anything it was just like They weren't a fit. for what we needed or they their skill level wasn't what we thought it was or something like that.

00:12:29.41
Sean
Yeah.

00:12:29.32
Andrew
Yeah. um and then like you know one of the best engineers we ever hired who i was like fully planning on Yo.

00:12:40.14
Andrew
I was fully planning on preparing him to be like sort of our engineering leader and eventually like probably be a partner in the business. um How to like. not incredible interview. Like he had a great personal interview, but his his code interview.

00:12:55.73
Andrew
Um, he struggled on a little bit like our our senior engineer at the time pointed out ah like a lot of kind of problems in his code Um, And then when we sold to Gray Noise... similar sort of thing like he Like he was such a good engineer, but I think he just like.

00:13:10.91
Andrew
for whatever reason didn't interview well. And then like. Um, So we ended up hiring him at like a slightly lower level than I. Felt like he... than he wanted and then that he probably deserved.

00:13:24.74
Andrew
um Just because, like... Oui. hadn't seen it in the work. but then within like a month we promoted him because we were like oh no like once you

00:13:32.57
Sean
Let's see.

00:13:33.25
Andrew
Once he got in and started working with us day to day, he was super solid. Um, It was... Yeah, it's so interesting. Some people, I think... interview really well and like to the point that it can be hard to tell.

00:13:47.22
Andrew
what their actual level is.

00:13:47.56
Sean
Right. Right.

00:13:48.83
Andrew
um And then some people, the reverse.

00:13:51.58
Sean
oh so sometimes they just they just be out here lying You know? We've had that happen before.

00:13:56.21
Andrew
Yeah, luckily I don't think we ever ran into that. um But. I'm sure it happens.

00:14:03.96
Sean
Well... What's going on with you? How's Metamonster? I'm sorry.

00:14:07.60
Andrew
So... Uh, Meta Monster's going...

00:14:09.15
Sean
For now.

00:14:10.60
Andrew
Sorry.

00:14:11.61
Sean
i was gonna say or no segue what is this career advice you want to you want to talk about.

00:14:11.68
Andrew
Go ahead.

00:14:16.75
Andrew
Yeah. um I really... Do you listen to mostly technical? Okay. Um... So I listen to Mostly Technical pretty religiously these days.

00:14:27.70
Andrew
and um you know the one of the Two co-hosts, Ian Lansman, has created this product, Altro. um, Which is like a... It's basically like a project management tool for podcasts, like a podcast production tool.

00:14:42.66
Andrew
but not production in terms of like. audio production production in terms of like planning scheduling structuring, all of that. um End. Uh,

00:14:54.72
Andrew
I really... i'm really tempted to use it because like i one i never remember what we talked about on the last podcast Um, And to. I... I feel like. having just sort of a rough layout of like Here's the topics we want to talk about. and like their segues aren't perfect. like you know, it's often like. hey you put this on the board tell me about it like what is what is this thing Um,

00:15:16.62
Andrew
but it works for them i mean obviously they have a much larger, more successful podcast than we do in part because Aaron has a massive. audience and

00:15:24.92
Sean
no

00:15:25.51
Andrew
Um, Podcasts are much better for. building deepening a relationship with an audience than growing an audience but yeah Not to get too meta. Oh. Anyway, you said segue. That made me made me think of that.

00:15:37.49
Sean
Gotcha. How's that?

00:15:38.59
Andrew
Sorry, total, total aside.

00:15:40.57
Sean
Wait, what is the product called? The product is called Segway or outro?

00:15:43.25
Andrew
know the The product is called Outro .fm.

00:15:45.96
Sean
Okay.

00:15:46.13
Andrew
Um, But Ian is also refusing to launch it.

00:15:46.75
Sean
okay

00:15:49.62
Andrew
He has built it. and it's like fully functional. and he refuses to open it up because he doesn't want to deal with customer support. Which is hilarious.

00:15:58.68
Sean
understandable All right.

00:15:59.99
Andrew
Yeah. He basically you know has a successful SaaS business, and it's like, I don't feel like dealing with customer support.

00:16:00.87
Sean
Thanks, Tim.

00:16:06.24
Sean
Cool.

00:16:06.73
Andrew
Um, Ironically, his SaaS business is a customer support product. Which is great. um Okay. veering back onto the actual topic at hand i told you ahead of time i wanted to i wanted some career advice

00:16:20.27
Sean
Yeah.

00:16:21.36
Andrew
So... Um... Meta Monster is going relatively well. um Not like... gangbusters but but relatively well. We are slowly stacking subscriptions.

00:16:35.85
Andrew
ah you know we we got up We briefly got up to 10 customers. I think a couple of people sort of subscribed who didn't mean to subscribe. So we went back down to eight. but then we've added a couple more so i think we're like we're hovering around the 10 subscriber mark Um,

00:16:51.29
Andrew
Uh, Thanks to Niscreants upping their subscription. We're like. over 1K MRR, which is like the first time I've ever been there with a SaaS product where like...

00:16:58.74
Sean
Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

00:17:01.50
Andrew
hovering between twelve and fifteen hundred an m MRR.

00:17:05.25
Sean
Nice.

00:17:05.94
Andrew
Um, which feels like solid traction. And so I came out of the conference we went to a few weeks ago. feeling like um yeah I kind of went into August.

00:17:17.81
Andrew
Thinking. okay august is gonna be a deciding month for me do i stay full time on MetaMonster? Or do I need to start looking for other sources of income? Um,

00:17:29.41
Andrew
And I came out of the conference feeling really good. like okay we're finally building some momentum it feels like we're honing in on our positioning um We just updated our website, which I i can talk about.

00:17:41.12
Andrew
um, that a little bit ah because I want to talk about how I used AI in my writing process. um because I did use AI in my writing process. as someone who is resistant to building an ai writing product i used ai in my writing process Bye.

00:17:56.18
Andrew
Putting that topic aside. Um, So I came out of this conference feeling really energized and feeling like we had some momentum and being like okay I want to stay full-time on Metamonster through the end of the year.

00:18:09.26
Andrew
Um. um I've got the savings. uh that I have held onto from selling crit. Um, And I set those savings aside intentionally to build a startup.

00:18:20.79
Andrew
Um, And so. It's like, okay, I can use that money to sort of get me through. the end of the year and I won't be out of money. I i still have some cushion left. Um,

00:18:32.52
Andrew
I'll probably have to dip into that money a little bit to like furnish an apartment and stuff because I'm going to be. looking for an apartment here in Mexico City. um But... um Yeah, so that that was sort of the the plan in my head. and And so I sat down one day with Claude.

00:18:48.77
Andrew
And I said, Claude help me build a growth model for meta monster over the next two years For it to be worth it for me, like for the...

00:18:59.69
Andrew
um essentially the ah What's the word? i I used this word earlier before we jumped on the podcast. um like trading costs but that's not

00:19:07.81
Sean
Opportunity cost?

00:19:08.71
Andrew
Opportunity cost. Thank you. for the opportunity cost to be worth it. to like focus full-time on MetaMonster for the next two years and not... you know, sacrifice the the sort of.

00:19:19.58
Andrew
other income streams I could potentially build. Um, Where do I feel like i we need to be in um MRR two years from now? and I landed on 50K. Um,

00:19:30.80
Andrew
if we If we were at 50K MRR two years from now, I would feel really solid. I would feel like, okay. We are building something valuable. Like this. has been worth it. Would I love for that to be 100k? Obviously. But.

00:19:43.30
Andrew
Um, but like if we can get to 50 K. that would feel really solid I think I would still feel pretty good if we were at like 30. But. but 50 would feel more solidly like yes this has been worth it Um.

00:19:56.94
Andrew
And so... I kind of wanted to just like... figure out if that was even feasible because you know since we're at 1k right now 50k is 50x that feels like a massive amount of growth in two years um I was like, can we even do that?

00:20:11.81
Andrew
um And can we do it in a way that's realistic? like we're not going to suddenly start adding 10 customers a month. next month like I don't think we've

00:20:18.98
Sean
then

00:20:20.40
Andrew
We're that close to like. cracking any sort of marketing funnels or anything. so um I was basically just like, can we do this? So. I sat down with Claude and I was like, okay, I want to be at 50k a month.

00:20:33.58
Andrew
year from now. we're at 1k a month and like 10 customers right now. um Or I think I said. 1 .2 K and 10 customers right now. Build a model that gets us to Um,

00:20:48.58
Andrew
to 50k a month. where We primarily are. driving growth through founder-led sales. at first. um And, you know. we need to be you know it needs to be realistic um so adding like one or two customers a month to start with Um,

00:21:08.04
Andrew
But then at a certain point. Like. for this to make sense for that. to hit that level of growth, we probably need to switch to PLG. Um, because we're still at a price point that...

00:21:20.70
Andrew
that is going to be a more PLG. centered price point. um unless our our price point and our target audience are going to be a more plg make more sense for PLG. So.

00:21:34.48
Andrew
Hey. At some point we're going to need to make the switch over to PLG. which probably means buying ads. Um... you know, help me just sort of Model this out and build the numbers and like let's see if this is possible um And so i sent you I sent you the link. right before we jumped on the call.

00:21:52.94
Andrew
And the model I came up with is not perfect. There's some things i would I would tweak and change, but it was good enough that I was like, yeah, this makes sense to me. I think this is doable. And I think this is a good.

00:22:04.72
Andrew
Like so many startup models you've seen naive startup founders especially the ones who are trying to raise money who come in and are like Just like... Yeah, we're going to turn on.

00:22:17.21
Andrew
Marketing. six months from now and then we're gonna be you know rigging in the money. and this didn't feel like that this felt like a realistic growth model where it was like okay you need to be adding Like.

00:22:30.83
Andrew
Two customers a month. every month through the end of the year. And then that needs to slowly start to ramp up to three. four. five. And then. Like. basically It had us getting to. about 5K a month in MRR.

00:22:45.58
Andrew
and then starting to turn on ads Now we're at. where it got things wrong is it was like you can start putting 350 a month into ads And you'll start getting conversions. And I was like, no, that's not how that works. like From all the...

00:22:58.67
Andrew
Advertising people I've talked to you kind of need to be willing to spend about 5k a month on ads Um, In order to like. Test enough options learn enough seed the algorithms enough to like really prove or disprove that added

00:23:15.43
Sean
Yeah.

00:23:15.49
Andrew
an ad funnel can work.

00:23:17.34
Sean
Yeah.

00:23:17.56
Andrew
Um, And so, you know, he got that wrong. but But then... and then it like it also sort of had us going in a direction where we like hire an AE and like you know,

00:23:29.28
Andrew
had us getting to a point where I'm doing like 60. demos a month. which I think is... Probably unrealistic. um So. But it was at least like feasible enough that I was like, okay this especially just like the part to get us to you know that sort of 5 6k a month where we could feasibly start putting money in dads and i was like Okay, i think there's I think this makes sense.

00:23:54.64
Andrew
Um, Now the flip side of this is what it showed me is like Okay. Let's say we can we can do this we can use webinars cold outreach in-person events.

00:24:06.52
Andrew
to to get us. to 5k a month. Um, Get us to 5K a month. um And then we can start turning on ads. Um,

00:24:17.19
Andrew
And we can, we can. Tweak and test an ad funnel Um, And we continue to do the webinars, the in-person events and stuff. and And maybe we... We. get to where you know I'm doing 20 or 30 demos a month. That would be incredible. But like let's let's say we could get to 20 or 30 demos a month.

00:24:36.52
Andrew
And so, you know, we're closing five to 10 new customers a month from from sales and then doing... starting to build a PLG funnel through through ads. and organic. um and and stuff.

00:24:49.36
Andrew
And I didn't include organic. I didn't include anything other than ads because I was trying to keep this relatively simple.

00:24:56.72
Andrew
for us to hit that 50k mark two years from now. We need to be relatively aggressive. um And so that means. we're probably not going to be able to...

00:25:09.42
Andrew
Hey me out of Metamonster's bank account. for A year. or more.

00:25:20.92
Andrew
Um, unless we raise some money. Which? Yo. open to doing something like tiny seed if if it made sense Um, but um Or, you know.

00:25:34.50
Andrew
I think. you know potentially i could reach out to some angel investors or something and try to structure something a tiny seed type deal where it's like hey we're not going to get raised more money this is just to get us from here to there

00:25:47.05
Sean
Younger friends and family. round as well.

00:25:48.66
Andrew
Yeah, friends and family around.

00:25:50.14
Sean
Mm hmm.

00:25:50.33
Andrew
um you know. I think potentially I could do something like that. I think I have enough. connections to founders and stuff that. you know. um if If we...

00:26:01.39
Andrew
had a

00:26:02.99
Andrew
If we had compelling traction, if it looked like we were... We were. hitting on product market fit, I think I could potentially. do something like that But. But not. not something I want to count on.

00:26:14.12
Andrew
Um. and not something we're sure we'd want to do anyway. um because you know we've now brought on a third co-founder and so

00:26:18.39
Sean
Yeah.

00:26:21.46
Sean
Yeah.

00:26:21.90
Andrew
you know, equity becomes becomes kind of precious.

00:26:25.19
Sean
Yep.

00:26:25.41
Andrew
Um, So... This is where I'm... Thinking. you know, ah Part of me really wants to. Stay focused full-time.

00:26:36.56
Andrew
on Metamonster through the end of the year. um When you look at our MRR chart for the life of Metamonster. you can see the point at which I got.

00:26:47.26
Andrew
too busy with freelance work last year. And like. you know we were sort of like and like starting to grow But like. you know making progress. And then like I got busy with freelance work. I got kind of burnt out on Metamonster and AI and everything.

00:27:03.20
Andrew
And like we stopped marketing, stopped pushing. And it just went. like we had gotten some customers who weren't good fit customers that was part of it so we had some churn and like and we weren't replacing them with anyone new who was a better fit and so it was just like Eh eh eh eh eh.

00:27:20.01
Andrew
Eh. Um, And then like when Jade joined in May is when like we started adding like one or two customers a month and we started building that momentum again. And that's when I started.

00:27:30.32
Andrew
you know we re spent the first quarter really rebuilding metamonster um And May is a... you know when we started really trying to like sell market again.

00:27:41.29
Andrew
Um, in earnest and so it's like you can see That like... putting focus and energy into this matters. Um, And you know this has been a life.

00:27:54.44
Andrew
Bong. goal. to like get a SaaS product off the ground, like prove to myself I can do this thing. And so like. one side of me says Grind it out.

00:28:06.71
Andrew
Stay focused. you've got the savings. Just like. Stay focused. Um, through the end of the year at least.

00:28:18.92
Andrew
The other side of me says... Okay, realistically... Like. You are going to get more and more stressed about money, the more those savings dwindle.

00:28:30.73
Andrew
And. Like. You. are not. realistically going to be at a point where you can pay yourself a significant amount and still grow meta monster ah aggressively enough to hit the goals that you have.

00:28:48.60
Andrew
unless we like unless we don't need ads, unless we figure out how to build enough organic traffic. um, which you know we have not done so far because we're in a super super competitive niche Um,

00:29:01.27
Andrew
you know, SEO tools is just like massively competitive. Um, So Unless we figure out how to like really build organic traffic. um,

00:29:12.25
Andrew
or like really build like content marketing funnels. Then like we're gonna need to put money into ads so like all these things are flying around in my head And it's like okay Do I?

00:29:24.92
Andrew
try to go down to part-time on Metamonster. and start trying to build other income streams and i don't think i would get a job Um, I think I would probably do coaching or try to build.

00:29:40.00
Andrew
Um. You and I talked last week about... Yeah, I think most likely I would do something around coaching info products content for agency owners something that would kind of like overlap nicely with metamonster would would build a similar type of audience.

00:29:57.98
Andrew
ah but have the potential for. separate income streams. Um, I... have a call scheduled with Jonari next week.

00:30:07.04
Sean
Nice.

00:30:07.07
Andrew
Um, to...

00:30:07.88
Sean
Hell yeah.

00:30:08.24
Andrew
to talk to him about what it would cost to produce something like that. I thought about trying to build. on YouTube because I think YouTube is a great growth channel right now. Um,

00:30:19.57
Andrew
And. thinking about doing that. under sort of my personal brand to build towards a coaching business or a Um,

00:30:29.84
Andrew
an info product business or something like that. for agency owners. Um.

00:30:36.03
Andrew
So I think most likely that's the direction I would go in, some sort of... coaching. and or content and or um info products. for agency owners so that it overlaps nicely with metamonster um i'm also like there's part of me that's really tempted to just...

00:30:52.16
Andrew
you know. experiment with you know, it's a great time to build because it's so easy to build. And so it's like, do I try to build some like stair step products and just. See if I can. build something of my own that can like bring in you know, it's never going to be 50k a month, but it could get to three or 5k a month quickly enough that it could.

00:31:11.44
Andrew
you know. pay the bills for me while I continue to work on MetaMonster. Um, you know Is that a possibility? you know, could I? Could I build another little tool or something?

00:31:23.33
Andrew
um

00:31:23.27
Sean
yeah

00:31:24.60
Sean
h

00:31:24.70
Andrew
So... this is where i'm looking for career advice you know it's like do i stay focused do i stay the path and just like grind it out and see where we are at the end of the year At which point I might have significantly less savings. I might have.

00:31:39.18
Andrew
And so like the pressure might be a lot higher. Um, Or do I go down to like three days a week on metamonster and try to start carving out two days a week to...

00:31:50.29
Andrew
work on. building another income stream.

00:31:55.09
Sean
My honest opinion?

00:31:56.37
Andrew
Mm-hmm.

00:31:58.79
Sean
I think you should learn. Two. not get stressed about your savings dwindling. Um...

00:32:06.43
Andrew
Cool.

00:32:08.39
Sean
Regardless. Um...

00:32:11.79
Sean
i think I think the thing is, like, your two co-founders... are like 50 50. you know Because... Right. uh,

00:32:19.73
Andrew
Yeah. Jade has Hello SEO, which is...

00:32:21.34
Sean
bit.

00:32:23.62
Andrew
you know, She has to focus on as close to full time as she can be. And then whatever other time she has, she dedicates to Metamonster.

00:32:31.00
Sean
right

00:32:31.21
Andrew
um which is a significant amount of time. um because She's got Hello SEO running really well.

00:32:37.78
Sean
For sure.

00:32:37.88
Andrew
Um, And then, yeah, Austin is now. back to part-time at Grey Noise. um and part-time on Metamonster. and then Also a new dad.

00:32:49.38
Andrew
So...

00:32:50.42
Sean
Right.

00:32:50.82
Andrew
Yeah.

00:32:52.34
Sean
so if you if you're not full-time on metamonster no one is full-time on metamonster which

00:32:57.60
Andrew
That is correct.

00:32:58.82
Sean
feels like your two-year timeline to get a 50k is not happening Um,

00:33:05.06
Andrew
without someone being full-time on MetaMonster.

00:33:07.52
Sean
right because like even in the beginning you you're You're saying that you're trying to close two deals a month. And like. That doesn't mean like two conversations, right? That's like...

00:33:16.41
Andrew
No, that means like 20 conversations.

00:33:18.56
Sean
Yeah. Exactly.

00:33:19.31
Andrew
10 to 20. Yeah.

00:33:20.82
Sean
Exactly. Um...

00:33:23.85
Sean
So I find

00:33:25.69
Sean
like if there was a way to do like an 80-20 split or like a 90-10 split or The majority of your time was a meta monster and you had like one like random small thing that you like took on for like easy like like low low time commitment but like decently well Paid.

00:33:44.58
Sean
thing like yeah sure um Um... But it it would worry me that like... Exactly what you said, right? like like Um...

00:33:58.62
Sean
The problem with services is that it's really hard to turn down a lump sum of cash. It's so hard, you know.

00:34:04.83
Andrew
Yeah.

00:34:05.60
Sean
Um...

00:34:06.38
Andrew
and they just eat time.

00:34:08.50
Sean
Yeah. Yeah, it's never.

00:34:09.77
Andrew
They just eat time.

00:34:10.55
Sean
Yeah.

00:34:10.55
Andrew
And content creation is the same content creation, just like

00:34:13.46
Sean
Yeah.

00:34:14.03
Andrew
will expand to fill as much time as it possibly can.

00:34:17.49
Sean
Right. Right. I think the nice thing about like... the content idea that we talked about is that it. it's not like directly it's not like you're creating like an seo show or an ao show for metamonster

00:34:27.58
Andrew
Mm hmm.

00:34:29.74
Sean
Um, but it at least is like semi-tingential but it's still It's still far off. and

00:34:37.49
Sean
Yeah, the the idea of like that becoming passive is a... is like a total lie. you know.

00:34:41.81
Andrew
Oh yeah, I don't expect it to be passive.

00:34:42.13
Sean
If anything, it's just. Mm hmm.

00:34:44.44
Andrew
um That's not it at all. It is building as a secondary business.

00:34:46.06
Sean
No, no, yeah yeah Yeah, I mean it as like... like the internet gurus who, who talk about how like info products are passively, like all this sort of stuff.

00:34:52.89
Andrew
Yeah, yeah

00:34:55.76
Andrew
No, God, no. They're info products.

00:34:57.60
Sean
Yeah.

00:34:58.28
Andrew
Info products are a constant launch and...

00:35:01.27
Sean
Yeah.

00:35:01.61
Andrew
launch cycle where you like you make money when you launch something and then it all trails off and then

00:35:06.71
Sean
yeah

00:35:07.38
Andrew
Like. Yeah, like... I've seen so many people trying. The only way to like really build that into a more sustainable thing is to sell a subscription.

00:35:15.46
Sean
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

00:35:16.85
Andrew
in which case you have to kind of build a community and do all of that stuff too typically um which is hard

00:35:20.37
Sean
Yeah.

00:35:22.77
Sean
Yeah.

00:35:23.11
Andrew
Um...

00:35:23.10
Sean
I think so. I think so.

00:35:24.42
Andrew
Yeah. Massive time investment. Um, Okay, let me let me pitch you on one other idea. that is floating around

00:35:32.43
Sean
Okay.

00:35:32.51
Andrew
um for like a thing i could do on the side. to make some money that would also be Give me

00:35:39.01
Sean
Pool cleaning.

00:35:41.18
Andrew
Not far off.

00:35:42.82
Sean
Okay, okay.

00:35:45.65
Andrew
Okay. Austin has started a side business in Charleston.

00:35:49.30
Sean
hu

00:35:50.17
Andrew
called the Charleston Box Company.

00:35:52.85
Sean
Okay. What is that?

00:35:55.92
Andrew
So... Austin Founds. um Found this company that sells like plastic totes, like plastic moving crates.

00:36:06.58
Sean
cool

00:36:06.92
Andrew
Um, And you buy a bunch of branded plastic moving crates. um You stick them in a storage unit. and then you rent them to people who are moving. So basically people are moving and they're like, I don't want to buy flimsy cardboard.

00:36:21.71
Sean
Yeah.

00:36:22.56
Andrew
boxes I'm going to have to immediately put in the trash. I don't want to buy a bunch of crates that I'm going to then have to stick in a storage unit or my attic or something myself. um So I will pay.

00:36:33.92
Andrew
Yo. whatever to a And it's like, Decent. Like. decently high prices like I'll pay like a hundred bucks a day. for for a set of crates.

00:36:46.69
Andrew
um

00:36:47.31
Sean
Like how many crates? Five crates.

00:36:50.08
Andrew
No, like a decent number of crates like here.

00:36:51.76
Sean
Okay.

00:36:51.74
Andrew
ah Let me let me pull it up. You can go to Charleston box code comm Um... Charles. then Charleston.

00:37:01.36
Sean
Yeah.

00:37:01.21
Andrew
Box go.

00:37:02.46
Sean
Austin really is the best. entrepreneur out of all of us just saying. Yes.

00:37:08.77
Andrew
Except that he like... like this thing is going really well right now and he doesn't want to market it more because he doesn't want to do more. Like. pickups and drop offs.

00:37:20.44
Sean
Yeah, yeah

00:37:21.37
Andrew
He doesn't want to deal with more boxes.

00:37:21.50
Sean
He's running out of crates.

00:37:23.86
Andrew
Um... Okay, so the base model is $99 per.

00:37:25.91
Sean
I love it.

00:37:30.42
Andrew
Oh, it's $99 per week. Okay, $99 per week for 12 boxes and one dolly.

00:37:36.38
Andrew
And it goes up to $300. per week. um, for 72 boxes.

00:37:42.68
Sean
Okay. Sick.

00:37:46.29
Andrew
Um. so

00:37:49.06
Andrew
I don't. I don't. I still don't know like legally what I'd be allowed to do in Mexico City. So I don't know if I could like... And I don't know how easy it would be to get the crates here. I'm sure I could find a supplier of crates. here and Mexico.

00:38:02.88
Andrew
Um, but like with my residency status, I don't think I'm. Like I'm allowed to own a business here, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to like make income from that business. um like take a paycheck.

00:38:15.26
Andrew
Um...

00:38:15.40
Sean
Okay.

00:38:16.94
Andrew
Uh, I should probably talk to someone to figure out if that's a possibility. Um.

00:38:24.68
Andrew
but um, I... have thought about potentially trying to Start this.

00:38:35.56
Andrew
in Atlanta. where I have a bunch of friends and I like to go back and visit. The thing is I would have to start with an employee from day one. Like I would have to. find like a college kid with a truck who's willing to do the manual labor.

00:38:52.47
Andrew
of this and I pay them like 15 bucks an hour or something like that. Um... where I pay them per job. um you know Ideally, would you pay them per job? And then it just. scales up as you scale but i don't know if someone would do that you might have to pay them like...

00:39:08.00
Andrew
15 bucks an hour or something. And guarantee them like. a certain number of hours a week. Um. But. Um, And like finding that person.

00:39:19.51
Andrew
that person being reliable and everything. would be tough and I haven't done any research into the Atlanta market. um, but like basically find a market in the US. where I have

00:39:29.97
Sean
but I have a market for you.

00:39:30.89
Andrew
friends and connections. Yeah.

00:39:32.58
Sean
Well... I don't know if you have friends and connections.

00:39:33.24
Andrew
New York.

00:39:34.14
Sean
No, no, no, no. No, it's absolutely useless in New York. Don't do it in New York.

00:39:38.26
Andrew
Yeah.

00:39:39.12
Sean
The Las Vegas. convention center. does not allow vendors to have cardboard boxes at their booths miscreants, for example.

00:39:48.64
Andrew
Whoa. whoa

00:39:50.30
Sean
has to purchase. plastic crates. for our booth. every year. In which case... We're not taking that shit home. Like. you know how heavy those are to ship we have found it We have found a workaround on our end, but now we're paying a storage unit you know money to keep it there.

00:40:07.10
Andrew
Yeah.

00:40:07.84
Sean
But had you told me that Charleston Box Company existed...

00:40:12.10
Andrew
Las Vegas box company?

00:40:12.41
Sean
And I could just... Las Vegas Box Company.

00:40:17.09
Andrew
Holy shit, Sean.

00:40:18.16
Sean
All right.

00:40:19.46
Sean
Um, And Defcon is one out of a million. you know. of these right and the fire marshal of las vegas convention just strictly does not allow corporate boxes period

00:40:28.66
Andrew
Wow.

00:40:29.38
Sean
oh

00:40:30.41
Andrew
That's freaking huge.

00:40:32.26
Sean
yeah Big. Big ideas. So...

00:40:37.22
Andrew
If you could... if you could somehow build a relationship with the convention center where Like. they're

00:40:43.54
Sean
oh you just pull the relationship with the unions that work for because each convention has a different union that works with them but again

00:40:49.23
Andrew
Hmm.

00:40:50.09
Sean
But I mean, you could also just build a relationship with the convention center either or. you know

00:40:53.85
Andrew
Yeah, basically just get someone to recommend you to people

00:40:54.50
Sean
Yeah.

00:40:57.50
Sean
right

00:40:57.64
Andrew
when they're telling people, hey vendors, you can't have cardboard boxes.

00:41:02.03
Sean
Right. Right. Here's the problem with it though. You would have to be you or someone would have to be in Vegas to.

00:41:05.15
Andrew
Yeah.

00:41:10.41
Sean
to do that. Although I'm pretty sure you could find a...

00:41:12.18
Andrew
Zip.

00:41:13.39
Sean
like a hustler in Vegas who's willing to. Work with you.

00:41:17.43
Andrew
Yeah, so this is the thing I like I'm not going to move to any of these places like I'm i'm not going to leave Mexico City

00:41:23.09
Sean
Right.

00:41:23.34
Andrew
So... it it would require me to be willing to travel to this place frequently. um, And. which Vegas is not my favorite place in the world, but at least there's good food and like rock climbing and shit.

00:41:34.95
Andrew
Um, So I would have to be willing to travel there to like set set everything up um, and like probably make frequent. trips there to check on things and and everything.

00:41:46.10
Sean
right

00:41:47.18
Andrew
Um, But. Uh, but um Yeah, I mean, I think it would be pretty easy to manage remotely if you could find a good reliable.

00:41:58.94
Andrew
Driver. driver cleaner. Yo.

00:42:03.10
Sean
Yeah.

00:42:03.29
Andrew
Um, Find a good reliable like employee

00:42:06.48
Sean
Yeah.

00:42:07.74
Sean
Yeah, you just have to find a good reliable employee. Yeah.

00:42:11.87
Andrew
What do you think? Should I do it?

00:42:13.75
Sean
Well, what I was gonna say... separately was Um... uh, Okay, so like this. Anecdotally, right like this authority ops thing that i'm doing and I tell you about this like ghost writing for cso's and like technical leaders.

00:42:27.86
Andrew
e You have I can't tell if you told me about this or if you've just talked about starting. things like this so many times that

00:42:36.59
Sean
That's fair.

00:42:36.88
Andrew
I... and mixing it up with a different thing that was very similar but i think you told me about this because this is part of why you were building that product for a little while right

00:42:41.38
Sean
Okay. So...

00:42:45.93
Sean
Yes, yes. until Until a friend of mine started building the product, so now. He's our engineering team and we just pay him the monthly thing for it um that has been the best business I've ever run. in my life Because.

00:42:59.85
Andrew
What?

00:43:00.77
Sean
Yeah, because I don't do any of it. I have someone else who... who like finds clients, like. basically there's like a gm for it and then i have like a strategist who does the writing Um,

00:43:12.36
Andrew
How did you...

00:43:12.61
Sean
It's not.

00:43:13.38
Andrew
How did you find someone who was actually good enough to find clients? I feel like that's always the impossible piece.

00:43:19.30
Sean
Uh, Um... i got introduced through through some like recruiter friends, um, who it was like really good timing. They just had left the thing. They were chief of staff somewhere. So it was like, So like their network just happened to fit.

00:43:32.17
Andrew
Mm hmm.

00:43:32.06
Sean
um And I think like I've been sitting on this idea for so long. that like finally like the right people came along so like I was like... Go do that. Like. Here's the thing.

00:43:42.08
Sean
here's Here's my master plan. go execute it and then

00:43:44.44
Andrew
Yeah.

00:43:46.15
Sean
uh rachel Um, Rachel checks in with me once a week or once every two weeks depending on if our schedules line up and just like gives me an idea I'm not saying it didn't have it's like ah Snags that it hit and we still hit snags but Um,

00:44:01.12
Sean
but my like The thing that I told her when we started the thing was like. If I have to be hands on. I'm shutting it down Um, um And they've been very like.

00:44:12.54
Sean
but I have i've not had to write someone else's LinkedIn post. um um the most hands-on was me building the shitty product until i found you know. So I think like, like a lot of things came into like fell into place that like.

00:44:24.34
Sean
The thing I'm getting at though is. Um, I wonder if you can find. Like... business partners who are Like... time-rich Cash pour.

00:44:37.35
Sean
or or network poor. Um, that are a good fit for for something like this. um Yeah. That's bye. Because, like... You don't have to.

00:44:51.44
Sean
Like ah like i've I've had a couple friends who who've also like wanted to work on things together, which... Um... you know they have a full-time job somewhere but they want to make extra like side income and whatever but like because they've never gone through the process of starting a business and and actually like taking a market they fall into the like they're just like i don't like i don't know how to do this like like You know.

00:45:16.78
Sean
a lot of like a good number of friends in my network are great pie bakers who who like. want to start a bakery but don't want to do any of this bakery Esk things.

00:45:28.15
Sean
um or even like want to think about. Like... any of that they just want to be able to bake

00:45:33.91
Andrew
Like the business stuff.

00:45:33.95
Sean
I wonder.

00:45:34.87
Andrew
They don't want to think about any of the business operations stuff.

00:45:37.47
Sean
Right. Right, so I wonder if there's...

00:45:38.44
Andrew
Yeah.

00:45:40.81
Sean
like a similar angle um and Actually, for what it's worth, there there are some that like, oh, so do you want to think about the business stuff, but like don't want to go into a blind. um But they want more than a coach.

00:45:51.76
Sean
Um, So they would rather have like a business partner.

00:45:52.78
Andrew
Yeah.

00:45:54.68
Sean
That's almost then. And like advisory. um

00:45:59.17
Andrew
Yet.

00:45:59.64
Sean
In.

00:45:59.72
Andrew
I was thinking that like if you were to do the box thing.

00:46:02.54
Sean
Mm hmm.

00:46:02.64
Andrew
um This sort of ideal employee would be someone like young. And. um who like wood. be interested. Like. in having some ownership in the business eventually.

00:46:16.29
Sean
Yeah.

00:46:16.45
Andrew
and but just like needs. Cash right now or something like that and so

00:46:20.96
Sean
Right.

00:46:22.72
Andrew
You you guarantee like hey i'll pay you 15 bucks an hour for 10 hours a week.

00:46:28.06
Sean
Mm hmm.

00:46:28.39
Andrew
for the first month and then we'll the first six months, and then we'll try to scale it up from there.

00:46:33.38
Sean
Right.

00:46:33.54
Andrew
Um, And then. Basically, anytime that they're not doing deliveries, you have them. doing sales and marketing and like you you teach them how to do sales and marketing and you You like teach them.

00:46:46.65
Andrew
Like. okay this is how Like I want. And you you sort of grow them into. a person who can be a chief of staff and then eventually take some ownership in the business or whatever

00:46:56.64
Sean
Yeah.

00:46:56.85
Andrew
Um.

00:46:57.14
Sean
Exactly.

00:46:58.38
Andrew
Um...

00:46:58.50
Sean
See you.

00:46:59.61
Andrew
And like. yeah The other way you could do it is like... You could find someone who was willing to be an actual partner from day one, but in that case, you probably wouldn't pay them a salary. or you wouldn't pay them

00:47:09.54
Sean
yeah

00:47:10.81
Andrew
you know hourly you just

00:47:11.35
Sean
Yeah, you really take splits On the thing, yeah.

00:47:13.37
Andrew
Yeah.

00:47:14.62
Sean
yeah I mean, there's also...

00:47:15.16
Andrew
Yeah, but but

00:47:16.32
Sean
there's also

00:47:16.69
Andrew
That makes it. that like delays the amount of time it would take for me to get to the point where this could be enough income for me that I could

00:47:25.12
Sean
right

00:47:25.54
Andrew
Yo. afford to not find another job.

00:47:29.54
Sean
right I was going to say the two aren't like mutually exclusive as well. you know Um, It could be both. right it just kind of depends i guess the point i'm getting at is like Um, Like a couple of friends of mine who like run agencies or service firms and stuff.

00:47:43.39
Sean
Oh, so like.

00:47:43.42
Andrew
Mm hmm.

00:47:44.21
Sean
are in. Are interested in like. partnering on a new sort of like joint venture type project that's like

00:47:51.39
Andrew
Mm-hmm.

00:47:52.03
Sean
for that sort of stuff like um you know whether it's like selling jet skis to the rich or it's like starting something random. like you know it it's it's more like business opportunity exists so do you want to collaborate and do something? so um Anyway, ah like I'm saying all this with like.

00:48:13.19
Sean
outside of the Las Vegas box company. you know. I don't have like a ah thing for you. It's just like.

00:48:19.40
Andrew
Yeah.

00:48:19.48
Sean
if it happens to come up um And maybe...

00:48:22.01
Andrew
Sean, do you want to go in on the Las Vegas Box Company?

00:48:24.86
Sean
i'm kind of i'm kind of down i'm not gonna lie that's kind of that's kind of a fun concept um um Neither of us are in Las Vegas. if

00:48:33.46
Andrew
Yeah, this is the problem.

00:48:34.02
Sean
Yeah. Yeah.

00:48:35.05
Andrew
you know, we're... We both bring the same things to the table.

00:48:38.84
Sean
Yeah.

00:48:38.96
Andrew
Um... and neither of us brings the thing that we need the most which is a reliable person in las vegas

00:48:42.63
Sean
Yeah. So if anyone is listening and lives in Vegas, hit us up. and Let us know.

00:48:48.03
Andrew
Yeah. andrew at discoshrimp .lol

00:48:50.73
Sean
Yeah. Hit Andrew up, not me. hit

00:48:52.75
Andrew
Yeah, hit Andrew up for sure.

00:48:53.100
Sean
Yeah. Um,

00:48:55.76
Andrew
Sean is way too busy.

00:48:57.31
Sean
Yeah. ah By the way, I don't think it's something that works in New York. um at least for New York. Like. moving. I like. I would just pay movers and movers would have their own cardboard boxes that they bring and they tape up and they.

00:49:11.68
Sean
move all our shit to somewhere else. um

00:49:13.60
Andrew
Mm hmm.

00:49:14.53
Sean
um I'm not saying maybe it wouldn't never work, but. I find it hard to believe that It will. um

00:49:20.46
Andrew
Yeah. But could you... could you get in with them and No, the movers would just... invest in their own boxes. they would.

00:49:27.15
Sean
Right.

00:49:28.09
Andrew
doesn't make any sense for them to rent boxes.

00:49:29.98
Sean
Right. um also the thing is with movers like Like, Cardboard is fundamentally it's just going to be cheaper. um And it doesn't matter if they don't reuse it because. So they're buying it. incredible scale and like it's branded anyway Um...

00:49:45.46
Sean
Yeah, I don't I don't see how I...

00:49:48.24
Andrew
the last but he is a like convention center thing is wild.

00:49:48.89
Sean
Yeah.

00:49:51.80
Sean
Yeah.

00:49:52.13
Andrew
Because that...

00:49:52.59
Sean
Yeah.

00:49:52.95
Andrew
could just make so much freaking sense.

00:49:55.22
Sean
Dude it it is threw off

00:49:57.93
Sean
First of all, I pissed all the vendors off to find out about this.

00:50:00.56
Andrew
Oh so it's a new rule.

00:50:00.50
Sean
like As of like two years ago. Yeah. Yeah.

00:50:08.21
Andrew
Dude, I love getting in where like regulations create a market.

00:50:12.13
Sean
yeah A box market. um I'm not not down just for the record Like, we do know. Two of the unions that... work with the center.

00:50:23.15
Sean
Um... Yeah. Wouldn't be impossible. This is almost as We could do this or we could do... Gummy vitamins. Just saying. Okay.

00:50:34.63
Andrew
This feels way easier to get started than gummy vitamins.

00:50:38.60
Sean
Interesting. I disagree. But interesting. I feel like gummy vitamins are so much easier. I feel like Um,

00:50:48.22
Andrew
Did you say you you know someone who can like who would just like drop ship. gummy vitamins.

00:50:54.03
Sean
There's plenty of like online services that that let you do that. um

00:50:58.13
Andrew
Huh. I don't want to get into the supplement game that I dug.

00:50:59.02
Sean
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:51:02.46
Andrew
I still ah just don't like supplements.

00:51:03.39
Sean
correct

00:51:06.26
Andrew
that's your That's your world, not mine.

00:51:08.48
Sean
that is my i mean even that i still don't want to get into Like... Um...

00:51:14.19
Andrew
So not to not to dominate the entire podcast, just talking about me and my life, but... um

00:51:19.42
Sean
Yeah. That's okay.

00:51:20.51
Andrew
ah Okay, setting the box stuff aside for a second. Which? interesting to me that you think that there's more potential there for that to. quickly generate income and in a way that isn't as distracting as the content and coaching business.

00:51:37.07
Andrew
Um,

00:51:38.07
Sean
Well, i think I think the content and coaching business relies on you.

00:51:41.54
Andrew
Mm hmm.

00:51:42.35
Sean
Like... the problem with kind of like unless you ah like i think you can apply the same model where if you have someone it's just manual labor is much has a much larger hiring pool than like

00:51:52.13
Andrew
Yes.

00:51:52.77
Sean
someone who sells expertise um and like your niche of expertise.

00:51:55.26
Andrew
Yes.

00:51:57.57
Sean
Yeah that's the problem.

00:51:58.38
Andrew
Yeah. Yeah.

00:51:59.37
Sean
Yeah.

00:52:00.03
Andrew
Like. The box company actually has the... the sort of like structural potential. to build it in a way that takes effort up front to get it started but then

00:52:11.58
Sean
Right.

00:52:12.92
Andrew
takes is more maintenance and oversight than it is Then it is like.

00:52:16.89
Sean
Right.

00:52:18.09
Andrew
active day to day.

00:52:19.61
Sean
Right.

00:52:20.03
Andrew
work.

00:52:20.81
Sean
right

00:52:22.17
Andrew
which is interesting. um Um, okay. Sue. the other question i was going to ask so that the content we're talking about creating was. video content.

00:52:33.59
Andrew
for agency owners. Just... Talking shop. All the shit that you and I love to talk about that like you that I can talk to people about for days and days and days um So... Another option is that We create that content. I create that content not under my personal brand, but under the MetaMonster brand.

00:52:52.19
Andrew
and create that content as a way of trying to build. Organic. traffic. for MetaMonster through YouTube and TikTok and reels and whatever bullshit because I think it's it's good short form content and good longer form content like talking head like da da da da da, sort of stuff.

00:53:10.33
Andrew
Um, When I was talking to Austin, his sort of instinct was, I think that's a better fit for your personal brand than it is for Metamonster. Like it's a little too far away from like SEO content optimization.

00:53:20.34
Sean
Mm-hmm.

00:53:22.74
Andrew
to be like the perfect fit for like meta monsters content.

00:53:23.55
Sean
Yeah.

00:53:26.31
Andrew
um You're nodding, so I take it you agree with that.

00:53:28.99
Sean
Yeah, 100%. it

00:53:30.55
Andrew
Yeah.

00:53:31.55
Sean
um Although I think if you're going to make content for ah SEO related. if you were to go down the path of like ah seo content creation and whatnot that just sounds like content marketing for metamonster

00:53:41.33
Andrew
Yeah.

00:53:41.96
Sean
Yeah. Also...

00:53:42.79
Andrew
That's what I mean.

00:53:43.75
Sean
Oh, wow.

00:53:43.70
Andrew
That's what I'm saying. that's what i'm saying like should i

00:53:44.70
Sean
Gotcha. Yeah.

00:53:46.64
Andrew
Should I still consider pursuing the video creation stuff, but do it as content marketing for MetaMonster, not as... Nadez. you know marketing for a personal brand.

00:53:58.02
Andrew
side business.

00:54:00.22
Sean
Yeah, i think I think so going back to... the original like question. I think you should be less nervous about I mean...

00:54:10.42
Sean
i understand that it is saving so hard to like detach the emotions from it but It's a budget. you're you're... The point is to spend the budget. Um, And for the. For the sake of growth.

00:54:22.50
Sean
Uh... you know Like. You...

00:54:30.28
Sean
What am I trying to say? i think it would be a ah disservice to metamonster especially with the trajectory you're on to like not focus on it especially because like it's like if you were gonna spend yeah i think if you like if you were gonna spend this time creating content just create it for metamonster Um,

00:54:46.94
Sean
I think... like you're it's like it's not like the cash stack is dwindled so low that like You're not, you're worried you're, you can't pay rent and the benefit, like I think with the position that you're in, it's also not like. win.

00:55:00.71
Sean
It's that low. You can't. go do some product work or can't do coaching work or can't do something to get yourself like Oh, at least. back up. Less than not in the red again.

00:55:10.58
Andrew
yeah

00:55:10.98
Sean
So... Instead of worrying about like. That I would. be balls to the walls doing meta monster things. is my take.

00:55:19.15
Andrew
Fuck yeah.

00:55:20.05
Sean
Yeah.

00:55:20.13
Andrew
Let's do it. Fuck yeah.

00:55:21.17
Sean
Yeah. Great.

00:55:21.87
Andrew
That's what I needed to hear, Sean. Okay. I love it. but also start Las Vegas box company at the same time.

00:55:26.80
Sean
yes yes but also if you want to start lesbians well it's gonna be i'm not not down to

00:55:34.57
Andrew
Because if there's one thing I know about you, it's that you need another business.

00:55:39.73
Sean
Yeah, I went through. i I spoke into Claude every single idea that I have. and i got 55 of them so So far.

00:55:51.16
Sean
Um, So. I got to cross them off the list. It's my to-do list. you know

00:55:57.29
Andrew
Hell yeah. Um, Cool. Okay. Yeah, I think that's the right take. I mean, it is crazy. So if if my... Burn is...

00:56:07.79
Andrew
My burn is like...

00:56:09.50
Andrew
it's i would like to say it's 5k a month it's been closer to 6k a month because i Eat out just an absurd amount and have been traveling a decent bit and stuff um Uh...

00:56:19.77
Sean
By the way, just sorry, really quickly. You know the whole team is down for like coaching services.

00:56:26.68
Andrew
Fuck yeah. That'd be cool.

00:56:27.71
Sean
Yeah. So like going back to the whole like 80-20 sort of thing.

00:56:28.76
Andrew
Cool.

00:56:31.24
Sean
Like.

00:56:31.55
Andrew
Yeah.

00:56:33.10
Sean
That's also another option you can choose It would just be like... Eh. as your friend in support of Metamonster. I would tell you to like figure out how to limit.

00:56:43.27
Sean
limit that because knowing you you're going to be like you're going to coach someone for an hour and then you're going to be thinking about it for like three weeks to five to ten more hours throughout the week and prepping

00:56:52.05
Andrew
Yep.

00:56:52.93
Sean
things. Um, And then now like when you're like doom scrolling. on X and stuff. You're going to go like. there's like two options right you could like doom scroll and then like go down the path of like oh there's cool seo stuff or you'll end up doom scrolling like oh this will be good for like someone else and then you'll Burn time that way.

00:57:13.58
Sean
Um, So like. as your friend It's an, you know. It's an option, but like. You got to figure out how to. how to limit the Thank you for joining us.

00:57:22.29
Andrew
how to keep it contained.

00:57:23.75
Sean
Yeah. Yeah, which is not super easy. so

00:57:26.98
Andrew
Yeah.

00:57:27.02
Sean
Um, But as you're as a client. you know that's great you should do Thanks.

00:57:31.72
Andrew
Don't keep it contained.

00:57:33.07
Sean
Yeah. yeah

00:57:34.63
Andrew
Um... It is crazy to think about. like Okay, i'm move I'm sort of in a way... let's say let's Let's... Just to make the math easy, let's say I'm spending 5K a month for the next four months.

00:57:46.84
Andrew
Um, um'm That's me investing. $20 ,000 into MetaMonster.

00:57:51.99
Sean
Mm hmm.

00:57:52.12
Andrew
Oh.

00:57:53.36
Sean
Yeah.

00:57:54.78
Sean
Is that.

00:57:56.61
Andrew
with

00:57:57.16
Sean
is that Is that good?

00:57:57.53
Andrew
with

00:57:57.69
Sean
Is that bad?

00:57:59.55
Andrew
It's just... That's what I'm doing. it's not good or bad it's just like that is what you're doing when you're when you're choosing to burn

00:58:02.36
Sean
ah

00:58:08.93
Andrew
your savings. in pursuit of a business like

00:58:10.49
Sean
Yeah.

00:58:12.16
Andrew
It's I think it's always worth considering like okay Yo. I am putting $20 ,000 into MetaMonster, another $20 ,000 on top of whatever I've already put in.

00:58:22.51
Sean
Yeah.

00:58:23.14
Andrew
So am I... You know. Do I think that... that has the potential for a really solid return. No. you know. Obviously if.

00:58:34.27
Andrew
If. Um... You know If that $20 ,000 can turn into a 50K MRR business. No-brainer. Right.

00:58:44.51
Andrew
Like that's.

00:58:44.97
Sean
right Amen.

00:58:46.02
Andrew
That's an incredible return.

00:58:46.98
Sean
But even a 10K MRR business, also a no-brainer.

00:58:50.66
Andrew
Yeah, I guess so.

00:58:51.10
Sean
Right.

00:58:51.89
Andrew
I guess so.

00:58:54.43
Sean
Um,

00:58:57.14
Sean
Yeah, I mean, I think it's like I think another way to think about it is if I was on acquire .com.

00:59:03.55
Andrew
Mm hmm.

00:59:04.03
Sean
Someone told me they had a 5K MRR business. right now for this sort of stuff would I spend 20k to to buy it. Or...

00:59:14.39
Andrew
Oh easy.

00:59:15.47
Sean
Yeah.

00:59:17.59
Andrew
Now, I don't know if we can get to 5k.

00:59:20.10
Sean
by the end of the year.

00:59:20.07
Andrew
with Only 20k. Yeah, I don't know if we can get to 5k by the end of the year.

00:59:23.88
Sean
Okay. How much do you think you can get to by the end of the year?

00:59:26.37
Andrew
So I mean the Claude model that I built out only has us getting to... Let me see.

00:59:32.22
Sean
End of the year, December.

00:59:32.70
Andrew
Um,

00:59:34.78
Sean
I don't know how to read this

00:59:34.98
Andrew
Um... Uh... December. it only has this at like 2k by the end of the year.

00:59:42.50
Sean
okay

00:59:44.25
Andrew
And then has us at 5K. basically a year from now. July 2027. we crossed the 5k mark.

00:59:53.17
Sean
Gotcha.

00:59:54.64
Sean
So would you pay 20K for a 1K MRR business?

00:59:59.04
Andrew
oof

01:00:01.17
Sean
Would you pay 15k for a 1k? Amara business.

01:00:05.18
Sean
How much would you pay?

01:00:05.58
Andrew
the problem The problem with 1K MRR businesses is like usually they don't have anything figured out, so there's not a whole lot.

01:00:05.96
Sean
if I were. to you

01:00:12.59
Andrew
of that. that you're buying. It's like. like the The dollar amount where I become interested is probably more like 5k.

01:00:21.68
Sean
Sure. Fair.

01:00:23.52
Andrew
so anything under 5k i'm like no i think i'd rather try to build it myself

01:00:28.38
Andrew
um Which is not... But it's like would I pay 20k? for another thousand dollars in MRR. for my business

01:00:41.09
Andrew
Ugh.

01:00:42.98
Sean
Yeah.

01:00:43.32
Andrew
What I thought they 20k Yeah, it's tough because like if if we could get to 3k by the end of the year I'd be like Yeah, that feels like worth.

01:00:52.90
Andrew
20.

01:00:55.44
Sean
how many clients How many clients is 3K MRR?

01:00:55.68
Andrew
It's tough, right?

01:00:58.18
Sean
Sorry, I don't know how to actually read this growth model that you send up.

01:00:59.09
Andrew
For us?

01:01:01.58
Sean
Okay.

01:01:02.38
Andrew
um For us, 3K is about 20 customers.

01:01:06.34
Sean
okay So we you need 15 more customers.

01:01:10.34
Andrew
Um...

01:01:10.55
Sean
Is that right? Or how about no?

01:01:12.88
Andrew
No, we only need about 10 more.

01:01:13.14
Sean
You need 10 more customers.

01:01:14.55
Andrew
10 more customers.

01:01:14.49
Sean
Yeah, you need 10 more customers.

01:01:16.28
Andrew
Yeah.

01:01:16.74
Sean
let's see

01:01:18.14
Andrew
Are you basically saying, go boss the wall, but...

01:01:18.63
Sean
So. You and I should talk.

01:01:21.22
Andrew
But you need to be more aggressive with your growth model

01:01:26.03
Sean
I think you need just...

01:01:28.90
Sean
I think you have not tapped. All the ways to grow. from marketing. whatsoever yet.

01:01:39.56
Andrew
Agreed.

01:01:39.80
Sean
Like... like until i feel like i see you making like shorts on shorts and skits on tiktok and like buying ChatGPT ads.

01:01:47.93
Andrew
That's what I'm talking... that

01:01:49.49
Sean
Like...

01:01:50.04
Andrew
Well, okay. ChatGPT ads are expensive as hell, right?

01:01:53.17
Sean
No. They're really cheap.

01:01:54.03
Andrew
Oh, they got cheap? They got cheap?

01:01:55.08
Sean
See you. Yeah.

01:01:56.16
Andrew
they They've reduced, they got rid of the whole like. Okay, okay. this This could be a whole other podcast episode. Let's like brainstorm how to get Andrew to 5K MRR by the end of the year.

01:02:07.72
Sean
Yeah.

01:02:09.16
Andrew
The problem with...

01:02:09.59
Sean
Cool.

01:02:09.91
Andrew
okay the problem the problem with like buying ads the reason we're

01:02:10.34
Sean
Thank you, sir. Uh huh.

01:02:14.48
Andrew
you know we're not buying ads right now.

01:02:16.90
Sean
Yeah.

01:02:16.78
Andrew
so you think you think we could spend less than 5k a month on chat gpt ads and get return

01:02:22.27
Sean
Alright, this is what I think we should do.

01:02:23.93
Andrew
Yeah.

01:02:24.26
Sean
We should record another podcast episode today with Rami. here. And make it the. Operation Get Andrew to 5K MRR.

01:02:31.58
Andrew
How do we get Andrew to...

01:02:35.24
Andrew
by the end of the year.

01:02:36.57
Sean
hopeful Yeah.

01:02:38.07
Andrew
I love it

01:02:39.15
Sean
Cool.

01:02:39.55
Andrew
Yeah, i'll see I'll see if I can get him on board.

01:02:42.35
Sean
Sick. Um,

01:02:43.93
Andrew
Cool. If not, we'll we'll try to do that one next week.

01:02:46.83
Sean
Yeah. Yeah. um Or, or. you can get into the job board game with me because My internet right now is. purely funded by my job board.

01:02:57.27
Andrew
What is your job board?

01:02:57.39
Sean
snow

01:02:58.03
Andrew
Security jobs or something?

01:02:59.39
Sean
No, no, no. It's for forward deployed engineers. Yeah.

01:03:02.99
Andrew
Ah, that's a smart one.

01:03:04.65
Sean
Thank you.

01:03:04.78
Andrew
That's a smart market to get in on.

01:03:06.21
Sean
Yeah. the the sas product was lifetime so i don't pay for any any of it. It auto fills like the jobs and whatever. um

01:03:13.43
Andrew
Yeah.

01:03:14.28
Sean
And it scrapes the internet. ah Shout out Jawboardly. Um, I don't know if it's lifetime anymore. But whatever. um But regardless, I think that's still very affordable. Like each post is 50 bucks.

01:03:29.25
Sean
Like randomly I get I don't check it ever because it's on this other email But every once in a while I get like stripe has paid out $49 .50 and I was like, oh Sick, you know so Um...

01:03:42.64
Sean
And there's like five. there's like no and less There's less than five SEO blog posts. on there. um So. You can get in the job board game. That's passive. That actually has been passive income. It's it's like pennies, but you know.

01:03:58.93
Andrew
Forward deployed engineer is a smart one. Um, I think. I think AirOps might already have a content engineer job board.

01:04:08.09
Sean
Yeah, but you can... i Think you could find like an angle

01:04:12.38
Andrew
Yeah.

01:04:12.68
Sean
yeah Or box company box movers. Jobs to funnel. that

01:04:19.57
Andrew
Love it.

01:04:20.88
Sean
All right.

01:04:21.32
Andrew
um Yeah, I think we're we're hitting our time.

01:04:24.63
Sean
Yeah.

01:04:24.78
Andrew
Real quick before we finish. Okay. So I hadn't heard about the job board thing. I had forgotten about authority ops. um miscreants is obviously main focus you're also building a product for miscreants how many How many businesses are we running right now, Sean?

01:04:40.10
Andrew
Do you still have your content goblin stuff going?

01:04:43.35
Sean
content goblin stuff is still going That's been cooking. and But that's not a business. That's like SEO experiments. to Let's be burning money.

01:04:50.11
Andrew
Are you paying? are you Are you paying money for it?

01:04:52.97
Sean
Yes, yes

01:04:53.74
Andrew
Are you making any money from it?

01:04:55.00
Sean
No. No.

01:04:55.76
Andrew
hu

01:04:56.35
Sean
it's entirely all like it's insights so for for miscreants related things but

01:05:00.74
Andrew
Mm hmm.

01:05:01.38
Sean
Um... we we are we're not building a product we're not building a product for my screens anymore

01:05:03.35
Andrew
Okay.

01:05:06.16
Sean
um We are building a security product.

01:05:09.00
Andrew
oh Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:05:10.08
Sean
Yeah.

01:05:10.57
Andrew
Okay, I was like, wait, did you?

01:05:10.75
Sean
um

01:05:11.52
Andrew
Did you shut down the product that you were trying to convince me to PM a month ago?

01:05:15.64
Sean
No, that's still going that's That's live now.

01:05:17.11
Andrew
Yeah.

01:05:17.92
Sean
There's a staging site for it. um It's.

01:05:20.10
Andrew
Hell yeah, dude

01:05:21.06
Sean
It's dog shit doesn't work yet, but you know. Um, Um... It's getting there. It's slowly getting there. um Our goal is September 21st is like.

01:05:31.57
Sean
demo-able product. um

01:05:33.22
Andrew
Okay. Okay.

01:05:34.43
Sean
Yeah, I know. I know. I know. Almost there.

01:05:37.03
Andrew
let's We're going to hold you to that on the podcast.

01:05:39.04
Sean
Oh shit. Okay.

01:05:41.18
Andrew
September 21st, can I say the name?

01:05:42.71
Sean
I'm having fun. uh yeah i mean i own the domain so whatever it's phone app

01:05:46.87
Andrew
September 21st, Phonet is going to be live.

01:05:50.20
Sean
Yeah.

01:05:51.16
Andrew
Is it Phonet .net?

01:05:51.21
Sean
No, hold on, hold on, hold on. PhoneNet is going to be demo-able.

01:05:54.79
Andrew
Demo-able, demo-able.

01:05:55.30
Sean
demo though.

01:05:55.94
Andrew
Okay. Is is it phonet .net?

01:05:56.68
Sean
Um, nerd .com.

01:05:58.01
Andrew
Is it phonet .com?

01:05:59.32
Sean
dot com.

01:06:00.27
Andrew
At least some of you have foe .net.

01:06:00.24
Sean
Thank you.

01:06:02.75
Sean
No. That's a good idea though. I should do that.

01:06:05.95
Andrew
Is foe .net available because That's that's a sick domain.

01:06:06.34
Sean
Yeah. Let's... All right.

01:06:09.70
Andrew
It can't be available.

01:06:11.08
Sean
I just dropped $2 ,000 on another domain yesterday.

01:06:13.98
Andrew
What'd you buy?

01:06:13.72
Sean
I don't. hyperspecific .com

01:06:17.08
Andrew
Hyperspecific .com is fun.

01:06:18.44
Sean
Yeah. Yeah.

01:06:20.07
Andrew
I don't know if I would drop 2000 on it, but...

01:06:22.30
Sean
Yeah.

01:06:24.99
Andrew
Do you have a plan for it? or

01:06:27.02
Sean
yeah Yeah, I'll tell you off the call

01:06:28.69
Andrew
Okay.

01:06:28.93
Sean
Yeah. awesome Yeah.

01:06:29.07
Andrew
All right, cool. Cool cool.

01:06:30.61
Sean
Yeah. I have have a concept of a plan. I don't have a real plan. for it

01:06:37.10
Sean
Seven, seven businesses at the moment. Yeah.

01:06:39.69
Andrew
Red.

01:06:40.35
Sean
Yeah. Yeah, only one of two of which no that's not true actually there's like four of them that are making money but One of them that actually pays the bills. So.

01:06:49.54
Andrew
Hell yeah.

01:06:50.55
Sean
Cool. All right, I gotta get out of here. um I'll talk to you later. Bye.

01:06:54.35
Andrew
Peace, man.

01:06:54.87
Sean
Thanks for listening.

01:06:55.18
Andrew
Bye.